Log in

mapping and stuff - monster's ramblings [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]

[ userinfo | livejournal userinfo ]
[ archive | journal archive ]

mapping and stuff [Jul. 30th, 2007|06:44 pm]
[Tags|, , , , ]
[Current Location |home]
[Current Mood |artistic]
[Current Music |Cryptopsy - Emaciate]

Lately I've been working on my quake map some more, and I've almost finished up the "cathedral room".  I'm trying to make this map seem like a demonic-type castle.  I just need to add in some monsters teleporting in when the player pushes the two buttons to raise the silver key up from an altar.  The silver key room will probably start out as some type of dining room.  I want it to seem like a real castle, that has been taken over from the forces of hell.  The player will have to travel through lots of passages to enter a graveyard area where the gold key will be hidden in a mausoleum.  When the player takes the gold key in the mausoleum, hordes of zombies will rise up from the graves.  A grenade launcher will also teleport in, so the player will actually take damage from the zombies before blasting them all away.  I don't have an idea for the gold key room yet...

I also figured out how to make curved arches in my cathedral room.. they spice it up alot.. maybe i'll add a chandelier of some sort...

I've been fragging some frikbots also and I will probably start on the Zerstorer waypoints given I can find the source.  I also found a couple of  neat maps (one without an RL, which is unique), and one that is just a huge library.  Recently, I've taken a liking to maps without an RL/Shaft.  The nailguns are suprisingly fun, and it also helps your aim with them.  My SG aim has improved so much since I've been playing against the frikbots.  I no longer miss that much online anymore...

It depresses me how people won't play custom maps.  or any map besides DM3 for that matter.  I like playing on the Euroquake server, because they actually play on different levels, which makes it alot of fun.  I get 100 ping, but it isn't too bad.  The fun well makes up for it.

I was also looking forward to Sunday CTF, but with Frenzy there it wasn't much fun.  That and I got pissed off because every time I got an RL and a Red armor, someone would come along with quad and annihilate me instantly.  I'm starting to think that the quad there is maybe 5x damage instead of 4x.  I get hit with the shaft twice with 100H and 200RA and I die.   Thats annoying. 

I might go to a mountain bike trail this week sometime... it should be fun, although I haven't gone mTB'ing in awhile since the local trail was destroyed due to construction :( 

[User Picture]From: scar3crow
2007-07-30 11:40 pm (UTC)
That song is fun to growl and scream. Good for driving.

Since it is 2 buttons, they are two different events... It might be interesting to have one of them spawn monsters near an entrance way to the silver key, and the other one spawn monsters at a previously cleared route, and then the actual key pick up itself spawns monsters - which you could do the classic way of just spawning monsters in the same room, or audibly spawn them in the connecting rooms, so the player knows there is something there, but not what.

Make sure to make it a little abstract, the flow should be fun like a level, not necessarily like a real place. It is humorous how the game industry is making this mistake later on, modern games directly emulate and imitate real settings so well, even though they're just not as fun to play on, because real life locales are not designed for competitive flow and difficulty, but rather are planned for cities and people to inhabit. Take Doom for example, the early levels were block like because they were still used to Wolf3d mapping - Carmack told Tom Hall to look at pictures of military bases and such for inspiration, he did, and he took it too far. He recreated military bases and labs and such in levels (much like HL does) and... they weren't fun. These places are not designed to be fun. Romero came along, and made spaces that looked functional and had some purpose to them, but the building as a whole is pure gameplay. Look at Quake's e1m1, it looks nothing like a base... but if you look at it room by room, each area could perhaps be. The more important part is all of that space connects into fun. Really any map in Quake falls into this, look at e3m2. A cool map, lots of neat things, and any view could tell you "metal dungeon of sorts", it all fits within that, but the design doesn't follow that of a dungeon.

http://jehar.tastyspleen.net/artmovement.html Jehar wrote on this more broadly and in greater detail as well. Check it out.

What defines these passages? Is it going to be mazey? People like to explore, not get lost. Are they just hallways or what? And how is the key hidden? Do you mean it is concealed within one of a few mausoleums or is it behind a secret panel (people hate that)?

Give a hint regarding the grenade launcher. For one thing I don't think you can teleport grenade launchers, so instead have it rise up on a plat of sorts maybe. Quick idea, amongst the graves, have one that has been recently filled, illustrated by the soil being higher than the surrounding grass... Put a trigger_once or trigger_multiple on the headstone affixed to it with a message of "They buried their death..." the player can logically infer that the 'they' in question would be zombies, and their death is going to be something powerful enough to gib them. When the player grabs the key, put a trigger that points to the soil mound (a func_wall entity with a name of soilmound or such) and a killtarget field of soilmound. The soilmound will disappear, and below it is sloping soil (so you don't have to jump back up) and at the bottom is the grenade launcher. You can do similar with the graves if you'd like, for when the zombies appear.

For the gold key room, the mausoleum could actually have stairs into some small earthen catacombs, and the key could be contained in there. It is logical, but flexible enough to allow for good flow for fun.

I still maintain that people who only play dm3 are not Quake players. Also, the way Frenzy plays Quake is more akin to a racing game, only it is to the detriment of all other players (masterfully making a turn to shave off the most time on your lap does not prevent the next player from taking it just as masterfully).

Funny how construction for "development" always seems to destroy other things.
(Reply) (Thread)
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]From: scar3crow
2007-07-31 12:11 am (UTC)
Make sure theres cover, otherwise shamblers and vores are basically just... damage machines, in general.

I have buckets of ideas.

Regarding different tombs, make sure at least one additional one connects to the catacombs, but bars block the connecting passageway (so you can see from one into the other, but not reach). You could put some armor or such in the one that doesn't lead to the key, either way, the player has a moment of "ooh, whats over there?"

You should have a direct route to the graveyard, that can't be opened but you can open from the other side, so as you reach the graveyard, the level interconnects some. Maybe have that path be a larger door, in a hall set off from the rest of the map in an early on segment, and instead of locking it and using triggers from the other side to open it, just position a shambler directly blocking the door, facing away - keep it away from combat so you don't accidentally wake up the shambler. The player now knows that there is something on the other side, but makes the choice of whether or not to risk it. By the time he reaches the graveyard through the route you spoke of, he may be prepared enough to take on the shambler. Just an idea.

Different from the typical 1 Quake graveyard? ;)

Whenever a room would logically have a window, put it in. Stained glass, or blocking crossbeams if you want it to look out over another part of a map.

Those textures are rather underused. The lights idea is good, perhaps if the room isn't just a square, but rather has some offset geometry, (think a square, encircled by a square that opens up) and when you get the red armor, the walls silently drop as the lights turn on showing the corpses, and an ogre or two are released. Use ogre_marksman so they don't growl, so it might still surprise the player.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: monster_616
2007-07-31 12:27 am (UTC)
Interesting.. I don't really get what you mean by the direct route. If it can't be opened, how would I get to the graveyard ?? What do you mean with the tombs? As in different mausoleums in the graveyard?

I like that red armor idea alot. So you're saying that when I pick up the red armor in the smaller square, the walls would lift up and show a bigger room with ogers on the ledges ?
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: scar3crow
2007-07-31 12:48 am (UTC)
I meant the direct route along with your original route. So the level connects within itself, but the player has real reason to not choose one - they're not prevented, but they will consider their options.
Yes, different mausoleums in the graveyard.

They could be on ledges, they could be on ground level... Don't put them directly in sight..

| | ra | |
| ____| |____ |
| | | | | x|
| | | | | |
| x|____| |____| |
| | | |
| | | |

You have the main secret, generically, if you grab the ra, the single line walls drop, the thick squares stay. Behind the thick squares on either side, one close to the end, one close to the entrance, are ogres that are triggered, but are ogre_marksman so they do not scream.

If the formatting for this is screwed up in the post, screw it, I don't feel like drawing in text anymore =)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: scar3crow
2007-07-31 12:49 am (UTC)
Yup, it all screwed up, just mentally indent it everything over until the edges make a square. its hard to explain in text.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: monster_616
2007-07-30 11:57 pm (UTC)
Yes, I was thinking of having the silver key pick-up spawn a shambler blocking the way out of the cathedral room. Maybe a vore could spawn in the center of the pentagram shadow that i currently have... I will probably use that grenade launcher idea.. I wasn't sure if you could teleport a grenade launcher in either. Nice idea, you definitely have potential for mapping. :D And about the mausoleum, I was thinking of having different tombs.. I'll probably add that in also. I want to also add some crucified zombies on wooden crosses too to spice it up a bit. I want the graveyard to look more different than the typical quake graveyards. Those passages were just going to be a linear pathway leading down to the graveyard. The passages will be cramped and dark (probably sloping downward slightly), with the grimy brick texture and zombies hanging on the walls. I'm not sure what to do with monsters in those corridors just yet. I could have the zombies jump off the wall when the gold key is picked up... The cathedral room might have a window looking down upon the graveyard just to show some interconnectivity.

In the cathedral room, i also have a texture of a hanging corpse (DM1). I might make that a secret area by shooting it and revealing a red armor. Just as the player picks up the armor, i could have a trigger_once targeting lights that illuminate zombies hanging on the wall and some more corpse textures.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: monster_616
2007-07-30 11:59 pm (UTC)
I can also post some screenshots if you would like ...
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: scar3crow
2007-07-31 12:13 am (UTC)
If you wish.

BTW, I don't think you can change crucified zombies to fighting zombies, I am not aware of a way to change it, and crucified zombies don't add to monster count. They're... not a monster in terms of the code, in a way.

My original reply is above, since you deleted your first reply.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: monster_616
2007-07-31 12:35 am (UTC)
I couldn't find an edit button.. so i had to delete that first one and start again.. Heres a screenshot of the main room and the cathedral room

Image Hosting by Picoodle.com

Image Hosting by Picoodle.com

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: scar3crow
2007-07-31 01:28 am (UTC)
Ah, wizard style.

Quick thoughts, do not use the fleshy-bone textures on the pentagram, it doesn't work with its dimensions or its structure. Go for a simple metal texture with no defined edges (ridges or bolts). Also step up the detail on the lighting, I don't recall the exact parameter, but my mind is suggesting "light+" or similar, which would take care of the stair step shadows on the pentagram.

Use a different texture for the ceiling, the walls and ceiling kind of melt together in a not so charming way. Also I see that the dead body texture is prominently displayed - not only does it scream shoot me (making it ineffective as a secret) but its in a position that has a decent chance of being shot anyways during combat. Maybe take one of the pillars under the switches, and on the inside, facing the wall, on the upper portion where it widens, put in a small square brush with a shootable button texture, make it a button, give it health, and have it target the corpse wall which is a func_door.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: monster_616
2007-07-31 01:44 am (UTC)
Thanks. I wasn't sure what texture to use for the pentagram either, I just thought it would look cool being made out of bones. I was also thinking about making it less prominent.

I kinda still don't get what you mean about the graveyard entrances..

You've been a hell of a lot more helpful than the guys on #terrafusion. Thanks.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: scar3crow
2007-07-31 02:29 am (UTC)
Think what structures that thick would be made of, that wouldn't be wobbly and would be secure. Apply this to anything for texturing.

Simply, one path is direct, you go through a door, bam you're outside, but it has a big risk of the shambler when you are not prepared for him. You can also go through the castle with weaker monsters that you will be gradually equipped to take on.

#terrafusion on a public level kind of has an attitude, many individuals are fine, but you're less likely to encounter that inside the channel itself, due to the atmosphere.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)